Can real people give birth to unreal people, or vice versa?
Short Answer
Yes — children born from a pairing of a real person and an unreal person can be either real or unreal. Swaruu (9) stated this directly: "Some may be unreal, some real." There is no rule that a real parent guarantees a real child, or that an unreal parent prevents one. The soul enters the body separately from the biological process; birth is not what makes someone "real." From the Taygetan perspective, the soul-body connection begins roughly two to three weeks after conception, and whether that connection happens at all — and whether it persists — depends on frequency compatibility and the choices of the soul involved, not on the parents' status.
This becomes even more complex when you consider Yazhi's position that the real/unreal distinction is itself relative and subjective. A person might be "real" from one observer's perspective and "unreal" from another's. The biological process of birth, pregnancy, and family life all function identically regardless — an autopsy would reveal no difference between a real and an unreal body. The distinction lies entirely on the non-material side: whether there is an individual consciousness from Source inhabiting that body, or whether it runs on what the speakers describe as a collective Matrix programme.
The Full Picture
Birth Is Not What Makes Someone Real
One of the most counterintuitive claims in this material is that unreal people are not born in the conventional sense. Swaruu (9) was emphatic about this in the original 2018 "Not Real People" transcript: unreal people "appear as energy" — they manifest when a real person's attention requires them, much like scenery in a film, and they dissolve when no longer observed. They are, in Swaruu's framing, no different from a phone booth or a lamp post — just potential energy taking human form.
But Gosia immediately pressed on the obvious problem: what about family members? What about people you saw being born? Swaruu's answer was striking. If you investigate any person — real or unreal — you will find they have a birth, a history, a life. That history is not evidence of reality. It is the Matrix programme expanding to accommodate your attention. "The minute you investigate their lives, they all will have a history and a birth," Swaruu explained. Watching someone be born does not tell you whether they are real or not — "you are just seeing another part of the programme."
This means the biological act of giving birth is not itself a gateway between the real and the unreal. It is one more element of the experiential framework the Matrix provides. A real person can give birth to a child who turns out to be unreal, and a person who appears to be unreal — a body running on Matrix programming — can produce a child who is genuinely ensouled.
Key source: 009 (Not Real People)
Children of Mixed Pairings
When Gosia asked directly about children between a real person and an unreal one, Swaruu (9) gave a concise answer: "Some may be unreal, some real. For what it all matters, in the end the experience is what counts, so for all it matters they are all real."
This framing is important. Swaruu did not offer a mechanism for predicting which children would be real and which would not. There is no genetic inheritance of "realness" — the soul is not passed down through DNA. Instead, the soul enters the body independently, based on frequency compatibility. A body is essentially a vehicle; whether a soul chooses to inhabit it depends on whether the frequency of that body and its circumstances match what the soul needs for its experience.
Swaruu also noted that "many real people marry, have children, love and live with unreal people." This is presented as completely normal — not a tragedy or a mistake, but simply part of how the Matrix experience works. The real person's love for their unreal partner or child is still meaningful, still real as an experience, even if the other party has no individual soul from Source.
The inverse is also true and perhaps more striking: an unreal person can become real. Swaruu described how unreal bodies can serve as "portals" for walk-in souls. At some point, a previously unreal person — including a child — might suddenly become inhabited by a genuine soul, becoming real "from a certain date of entry." This means that a child born to two apparently unreal parents could, through the walk-in mechanism, become a fully real person with a Source connection.
Key sources: 009 (Not Real People), 320 (Unreal People Becoming All Real?)
The Walk-In Complication
The walk-in phenomenon fundamentally blurs any neat family tree of "real" versus "unreal." Yazhi expanded on this in 2022, explaining that a non-real person's body "can suddenly become real" when a walk-in soul enters it — "which is very common." She stressed that this adds enormous subjectivity to the question: you cannot declare someone permanently real or permanently unreal, because their status can change.
This means a parent who was unreal at the time of their child's birth might later become real through a walk-in event. Or a child born apparently ensouled might, through the process Swaruu (9) described of losing soul connection — depression, disengagement, living against one's nature — gradually become functionally unreal. Swaruu used the example of an artist forced into a desk job selling insurance: "Depression after depression. Doing the same in boredom over and over. That Soul loses all interest in going into that body." The silver thread of connection thins, and the person may end up as little more than a shell — potentially opening them to the same organic portal dynamics that characterise the unreal.
So the question "can real people give birth to unreal people?" must be understood as a snapshot in time, not a permanent verdict. Family relationships involve beings whose status can shift across a lifetime.
Key sources: 009 (Not Real People), 320 (Unreal People Becoming All Real?)
The Matrix Creates Family Histories
The Dimensional Mirrors transcripts from Athena and Yazhi add another layer. When a being from outside the Earth Matrix — a starseed or a Step Down — enters 3D, the Matrix must create a mathematically coherent backstory to justify their existence. Athena explained this through what she called the "mathematical insertion principle": you cannot insert anything into a Matrix without also creating the underlying reason for its existence, as understood by the receiving Matrix.
In practical terms, this means the Matrix generates birth certificates, childhood memories, family relationships — even the memories of family members who "saw" the starseed being born and growing up. As Athena put it: "Starseeds who know they are Step Downs but their families continue to insist they are human because they saw them born and grow up — being that those memories would be implants of the Matrix itself."
This has profound implications for the birth question. A real person (a starseed) might have parents who genuinely remember giving birth to them, raising them, watching their first steps — and yet none of those events happened in the way the parents remember. The Matrix generated a coherent family narrative to accommodate the starseed's insertion. Are those parents real or unreal? Did the birth "really" happen? From the 3D perspective, everything checks out. From the 5D perspective, the entire family history might be a mathematical accommodation.
Yazhi elaborated that this story-generation is not proactive — the Matrix does not create histories unprompted. It generates them when someone looks with enough interest and energy. "What you seek, you find, even if it did not exist before." An unquestioning family member will never encounter contradictions in the starseed's history. But the history itself exists only because the looking creates it.
Key sources: 427 (Dimensional Mirrors), 428 (Dimensional Mirrors 2)
Consciousness Before Birth
The question of children's realness connects to a deeper point Swaruu (9) made about when consciousness begins. In the "Why Do We Suffer?" transcript, Gosia asked about babies and children who suffer — how could a blank slate manifest suffering? Swaruu was direct: consciousness does not start at birth or even at conception. "The focus creating its reality, even as a little fetus that gets aborted, comes from its former life and understanding."
The soul-body connection starts two to three weeks after conception. Before that point, the developing embryo is "just a lump of cells." After that window, a soul may begin inhabiting the body — but not every body will attract a soul. This is the mechanism by which a pregnancy can produce either a real or an unreal child: whether a soul enters depends on frequency compatibility, not on the biology of the parents.
A mother's thought patterns also influence the developing child, Swaruu noted. But those influences operate at the level of frequency — shaping what kind of soul (if any) becomes compatible with the body being formed. A real mother with high awareness might create a frequency environment more attractive to an incoming soul. But there is no guarantee. The decision ultimately belongs to the soul, not the parents.
Key source: 026 (Why Do We Suffer?)
Soul Groups and Family Incarnation Patterns
For families where members are genuinely ensouled, Swaruu (9) described a pattern of soul groups incarnating together across lifetimes. Family members are not random — they are souls who share a frequency match, often incarnating in rotating roles. "Your father being your sister then your mother, then you," Swaruu explained, noting that souls tend to wait roughly two generations before re-entering physicality: "it's quite certain to say that someone is their own great-grandfather."
But this pattern applies only to real family members — souls choosing to incarnate together. An unreal family member would not participate in these soul-group dynamics. They would simply be part of the Matrix scenery around the real person's incarnation, providing the context and contrast needed for the experience. Swaruu acknowledged that "many families are just genetics and forced social agreements, but hold nothing in common" — a description that could encompass families where real and unreal members coexist without any deeper soul-group connection.
Key source: 021 (Families and Afterlife)
Yazhi's Relativistic View: Everyone Might Be a Tulpa
Yazhi pushed the entire framework further in her "Tulpas" discussion by arguing that everyone — real and unreal alike — is fundamentally an idea, a "tulpa" held by Source. From this perspective, the distinction between real and unreal people becomes just another concept, another idea layered on top of a reality that is itself made entirely of ideas.
"What makes them different from us as ideas?" Yazhi asked about backdrop people. When Gosia invoked the soul spectrometer as proof of the difference, Yazhi laughed and noted the spectrometer "is infamous for its errors." She was not dismissing the real/unreal distinction entirely, but suggesting that it operates within a framework that is itself relative. "Extreme matrixed backdrops" — the ones truly as empty as street posts — do exist. But the boundary between a "real" person and an "animated" one may be far less clear-cut than the original 2018 framework suggested.
This matters for the birth question because it dissolves the assumption of a hard binary. If realness is a spectrum rather than a switch, then a child born to any combination of parents might exist anywhere on that spectrum — and might move along it during their lifetime.
Key source: 445 (Tulpas — "Everything Is a Tulpa")
Evolution of Understanding Across Speakers
The understanding of backdrop people and family relationships evolved significantly across the speakers:
Swaruu (9) (2018) presented the clearest binary: roughly one in five people is real, the rest are Matrix programmes. Children of mixed pairings "can be either." Unreal people are "not born" but the Matrix will generate a complete birth history if anyone investigates. Despite the stark framing, she consistently emphasised treating all people equally.
Yazhi (2021–2023) challenged the binary, arguing the real/unreal distinction is "relative and subjective." She saw both Matrixes (Earth and wider) as the same system, suggested unreal people exist outside Earth too, and proposed that at the deepest level everyone is a "tulpa" — an idea held by Source. She maintained that extreme backdrops exist but warned against thinking in absolutes.
Mari Swaruu (2023–2024) took the most practical approach, framing false people as an intermittent rather than fixed attribute. Her emphasis was on energy management: don't waste attention on irrelevant people, whether they are "real" or not. She added the concept of organic portals being used by lower astral entities as monitoring agents, giving the backdrop phenomenon a more active, adversarial dimension.
Athena (2022–2023) contributed the mathematical insertion framework, showing how the Matrix generates family histories and birth stories to accommodate the presence of beings from outside the 3D system — meaning that the very evidence people use to prove someone was "really born" might itself be a Matrix creation.
Key Transcript References
| # | Title | Focus |
|---|-------|-------|
| 009 | Not Real People | Core transcript — children of real+unreal can be either; unreal people not born but Matrix creates birth histories; walk-ins can make unreal bodies real |
| 021 | Families and Afterlife | Soul groups incarnating together; frequency match determines family; role-swapping across incarnations |
| 026 | Why Do We Suffer? | Consciousness active before birth; soul-body connection starts 2-3 weeks after conception; mother's thought patterns influence child |
| 320 | Unreal People Becoming All Real? | Relativity of real/unreal distinction; walk-in possibility; biologically identical in autopsy; non-real people programmed by Matrix |
| 427 | Dimensional Mirrors | Matrix creates family histories for inserted persons; starseed birth memories may be Matrix implants; organic portals as empty mirrors |
| 428 | Dimensional Mirrors 2 | Matrix generates birth certificates and paperwork; story-generation activated by investigation; NPCs vs real consciousnesses |
| 445 | Tulpas — "Everything Is a Tulpa" | Everyone is an idea/tulpa; real/unreal distinction is itself an idea; spectrometer errors; extreme backdrops vs gradient |
| S-049 | The False People and You | Intermittent nature of false people; practical energy management approach; self-questioning proves realness |
| S-205 | Monitoring Spirits | Organic portals as empty shells; soulless people as projections of real souls' minds; people with soul can lose connection |